Another 4 day work week this week and down to 3 days next with back to back holidays so the work weeks are Short & Shorter BUT the most important thing is that the progress here at Naval Yachts on XPM78-01 Möbius is getting Better & Better so it is ALL good.
This past Tuesday, May 19th was a triple whammy being the day of Commemoration of Atatürk, Youth and Sports Day. May 19, 1919 is is regarded as the beginning of the Turkish War of Independence and so in many ways this is similar to what July 4th is in the USA and Canada Day on May 1st. A big national holiday so all businesses were closed and we were all back on lockdown for the 24 hour day.
We all got back to work Wednesday morning with LOTS getting accomplished the remaining 3 days of this week as you are about to see. And then we are off again on Monday and Tuesday as begin a four day weekend, also under full lockdown status and so not ack to work until Wednesday morning, May 27th. This four day weekend , Saturday through Tuesday, marks Ramazan Bayrami Holiday which is the Festival of Eid al-Fitr which is the end of the month long fasting for Ramazan. It has many similar traits as Thanksgiving does in other countries as the focus is on getting together with family and celebrating with a lot of eating. Obviously a bit more challenging in this year of the Novel Corona Virus while under a full lockdown, but everyone was stocking up on groceries up through yesterday (Friday) and we think many families are creating their own family “bubble” and spending the 4 day weekend together in one of their homes.
Christine and I will enjoy another four days of truly spectacular summer weather here and in the bliss of being together and working away at our many “administrative” boat projects as we start heading towards Launch Date and are down to the final bits of kit for the boat, looking after insurance, flagging the boat, finalising antennae layout and that sort of thing. Neither of us thinks we have ever worked harder but we also think we’ve never enjoyed ourselves more and we could not be happier about our new floating home is shaping up and already dreaming about being at anchor and underway on passages as we get back to making our way around this awemazing world. Well, as soon as we are allowed to that is.
While our work weeks have been shortened most of May, the progress that Team Möbius us making gets better and better so please come join me for a tour through all that they accomplished this past 4 day week.
ELECTRICAL
As you might recall reading in last weeks progress update we are without our head Sparkie Hilmi as he is off enjoying two weeks of very well deserved vacation. However being the trooper he is, he worked both days last weekend before his vacation began on Monday so let’s go pick up where he left off last week.
If you were with us last week, you will recall that Hilmi had been busy wiring up the external rectifiers and regulators, one pair of which you see here, which manage and control the output from the two big 250A @ 24V Electrodyne Alternators that will be mounted on Mr. Gee our Gardner 6LXB main engine. These external rectifiers are mounted underneath one of the AL Workbench tops on the Starboard/Right side over near the Day Tank. Here is a good shot of one side of one of the two external rectifiers with the six red cables down the side bringing all the AC volts and amps directly from the Alternators which are in the Engine Room to the far Left. The two larger Red/Black cables on the Left carry the 250A @ 24V DC power to the Aft DC Distribution Box which is directly above the workbench here. This is the second external rectifier sitting off to the side of the one in the photo above with the six AC cables for the second Electrodyne alternator. You can see that each rectifier also has its own thermostatically controlled fan to keep the air moving over the diodes any time they get too warm.
However, being in the relatively cool Workshop rather than the much hotter Engine Room will help these rectifiers to keep their cool and keep cranking out the Amps anytime the Gardner is running.
Completing our tour of these Electrodyne external rectifiers, here is a shot of two of the 12 massive diodes inside which do the “rectifying” to convert the AC to DC. Of course we carry a full set of spares of all these diodes and other parts to be able to rebuild these alternators should they ever need it. If you are curious about why we have external rectifiers and regulators the short answer is MUCH improved efficiency due to running MUCH cooler.
For a more detailed explanation please go back and read my Mini Tech Talk in last week’s post.
Hilmi busy last weekend creating his latest masterpiece; this rainbow of wiring which carries electrons down and under the floor into the Engine Room as well as up to the DC Distribution Box up above. Peering through the composite grate flooring you can see this rainbow of cables running along the cable tray underneath and into the Engine Room penetration at the top of this photo. The flooring can be lifted out to service or clean and otherwise provides an eXtremely well protected pathway for these critical cables. Two bundles of six cables from the Electrodyne Rectifiers on the Left here, Green/Yellow for the DC Grounding cables going to the ER and then big pair of Red/Black Pos/Neg 24V DC cables for the Gardner Starter.
With a total output of 500 Amps @ 24 Volts or 12kW this is the equivalent of having a 12kW generator without the maintenance and expense of having one.
Up above the Workbench we can see where all these and many more cables will terminate at the big DC Distribution Box which will soon be mounted to that vertical rectangular AL frame in the center here.
BTW, the little R2D2 look alike on the Left is the Alfa Laval fuel centrifuge and the white box on the Right is the Kabola KB45 diesel boiler.
Awaiting Hilmi’s return is this collection of cables Inside the Engine Room that he will install cable trays for and route them safely over to the Alternators mounted on either side of the Gardner. Close up shot of the oval AL penetration carrying the cables through the ER wall. Once all the wiring is complete and systems are tested, the insides of all these penetrations will filled with purpose made filler to make them completely watertight.
Looking up and Aft on the ceiling in the Workshop we find this other remnant of Hilmi’s weekend work where he has mounted the two pairs of Black/Red Pos/Neg cables taking the 24V DC power to the two covered up Accu-Steer HPU400 Kobelt hydraulic steering pumps.
But wait! There’s more!!!
As I was typing this up here on Saturday afternoon, I heard my phone “ding” with the WhatsApp new message and what do I find? Hilmi is sending me photos of what he just finished doing TODAY! Seems like he just couldn’t stay away the whole week so he has come in again to get more done this weekend. Wow!! See what I mean when I say repeatedly that Team Möbius is Awemazing!!
Thanks to Yusuf in the head office, all the custom built electrical boxes arrived and so Hilmi came in and has them all mounted now.
As most of you can tell, this is our little MPPT City where the 14 Victron MPPT SmartSolar controllers live and they now all join together inside this new Gray junction box with all the circuit breakers and connections for the 14 individual MPPT controllers to join together and create the single output to the Main DC Distribution Box which is just off to the Right of this photo in the Basement ………………… ……………. over here!
Great to have this early just installed shot before Hilmi quickly fills it with all the cables, shunts and fuses. Easy to see the basic components of this box with the beefy copper Positive Bus Bar on the top and the matching Negative Bus Bar on the bottom.
Stay tuned for many more details as Hilmi gets to work bringing in all the cables through those WT cable glands along the bottom of this Main DC Box. At the other end of this “Victron Wall” with our 3 x 230V and 2 x 12V MultiPlus Inverter/Chargers and the Isolation Transformers this AC Distribution Box now settles into its new home. Last photo from Hilmi for this weekend is this Forward DC Distribution Box up in the Forepeak.
Yet to come is the Aft DC Distribution Box in the Workshop which we saw up above those Electrodyne Rectifiers Hilmi was wiring last weekend.
With the source of ALL our electrical power being that eXtreme 24V House Battery Bank in the Basement, we have created this “hub and spoke” type distribution model with the Main DC box in the Basement right next to the House Battery compartments and we then run a double pair of four120mm2 or 5/0000AWG cables to take the 24 positive and negative up to the Forepeak DC box and the Aft Workshop DC Box with almost no voltage drop. Then all loads connect direct to these three Distribution panels to keep all the fuses, circuit breakers, switches and shunts in the same protected box and close to the devices they service.
LOTS more to come on all this so please stay tuned.
And THANKS Hilmi and Yusuf for such outstanding work!
NEW ARRIVALS:
I usually leave the New Arrivals overview to the end, but this week’s bounty was all electrical so seems best to go through these quickly here. This box made it all the way from Oklahoma in record time and even had a hand written note from my now good buddy Dale Gould at Electrodyne.
But wait? Didn’t Hilmi just finish installing the Electrodyne parts? Well he looked after the external rectifiers and regulators in the Workshop, but what goes at the other end?
Look familiar?
It should as this is where those six red AC cables we saw Hilmi putting in up above, originate at the alternators on the engine. Massive in the eXtreme, these are the Junction Boxes where the wires coming out of the body of the alternator will be connected to those six big studs on the Left side where those six red cables will then take this power out of the ER and up to the rectifiers.
I have just set this Junction Box on top of one of the Electrodyne G24-250 Powerheads aka alternators to show you about what they will look like. You can see the white wires coming out of the alternator body on the Right which will be routed through the holes in the bottom floor of the Junction Boxes and connected to the studs. Peering inside one of these Junction Boxes you can see how simple and robust these Electrodyne’s are. The label confirms these are 24V @ 250A alternators which have a fully isolated or insulated ground as we keep ALL grounding wires on the boat independent and “floating” from the hull. If you know how alternators work you will recognize that these relatively tiny Pos/Neg connections are what actually control the output of the whole alternator as these provide the field current going to the Field Coils which in turn “excite” or energize the rotating Stator. With both our rectifiers and regulators being external, the ONLY thing inside these massive Electrodyne bodies is a spinning Stator that you see in the upper Left of this diagram of a typical alternator circuit.
This is what keeps the heat generation so low both inside the alternator cases and the External Rectifiers out in the coolness of the Workshop and keeps their efficiency and output so high.
Of course, producing all this 12kW of electrical power doesn’t come for “free” as an alternator just converts mechanical power from the engine that spins it, into electrical power. Transferring that mechanical power from the engine’s crankshaft requires VERY strong belts that will not slip and can handle these high loads. Each alternator requires approximately 10 HP from Mr. Gee when at full 250A output and so we will be using Serpentine 8V multi rib belts to drive these pulleys that mount on the end of the shafts of each alternator.
These multi rib Serpentine belts have replaced most single V type “fan belts” in cars and trucks as a single belt can power multiple devices and can last over 100,000 miles. They are able to transmit so much power without slipping by being very flexible and having so much more surface area than a single belt.
I am in the process of designing and building this Serpentine belt system and will show you more as this happens. This was the next pallet to arrive this past week.
Can you guess what electrical goodness is inside? Correct! Our last six FireFly L15+ Carbon Foam batteries!
I’m giving them a quick “physical” to make sure there was no damage in shipping and that they all have the full 4.2Volt output. These brutes weigh in at a svelte 42.6kg/94lb and each L15+ has two 2V @900V cells inside which you can chose to interconnected in Series to create a 4V @450Ah battery. We then connect six of these 4V cells in Series (pos to neg) or 6S to create a 24V @ 450Ah battery bank. As per this schematic, we have four of these 24V @ 450Ah banks which are then connected as two parallel pairs 2P to create two larger banks A & B which are each 24V @ 900Ah. Finally Bank A & B are connected in parallel 2P to create an overall House Battery Bank of 24V @ 1800Ah or about 43kWh.
Carbon Foam batteries have very high Usable Capacity of 65% being able to consistently crank out their Amps from 20-85% SoC State of Charge. That equates to a truly eXtreme Usable Capacity of 1170Ah for 28kWh worth of energy to keep us fully powered all day every day with reserve to spare.
Here’s what this all looks like inside one of the three battery compartments which are as low as you can get in the hull straddling the monster 25mm x 300mm Keel bar running down the center of the whole hull.
The six batteries on the far Right here form one of the four 24V @ 450Ah battery banks and you can see the next one starting off to the Left. And last but definately not least for this week’s exciting new arrivals was this box of goodness from Wendy at Defender Industries who is our “Go to Gal” for almost all the equipment on XPM78-01 Möbius whom we appreciate and depend upon SO much.
There was a mix up in the big Lewmar EST55 and 65 winches on the fore and aft decks as they were 12V instead of 24. Wendy was fabulous and fast at arranging a direct exchange with Lewmar so we quickly packaged up the 12V motors here and sent them off to Defender while they ordered the 24V replacements. Of course all this was happening at the height of the Corona crisis which added a lot to the overall challenge of shipping these heavy boxes back and forth half way around the world but we all persevered and it worked!
Thanks Wendy and Defender Industries! We could not build this boat without you.
You will soon see Uğur and Nihat installing these beauties so watch for that as this week’s progress tour continues.
PLUMBING
Back onboard XPM78-01 Möbius let’s see if we can find Cihan our multi talented Prince of Plumbing and many other roles. He moves fast so he’s not easy to catch but I managed to catch up with him most days this past week.
Any guesses what Cihan is working on here in the Basement? This should help to give it away.
Yup, this is the 100mm/4” PVC ducting Cihan has fabricated for venting the Battery Compartments. At the front end of these three Battery Compartments there is an intake vent pipe that takes fresh air down to the bottom of the three compartments and then at this opposite end of the battery compartments, this PVC pipe pulls the warmer air up at the top out of the compartment and eXtracts it out of the boat. Cihan and I were conferring on the routing for this PVC pipe and decided to get it up a bit higher for more headroom but you can see the basic setup coming out of the Battery Compartment. Looking further Aft you can see how Cihan is a master at using different angle bends of PVC to route this ducting up out of the way along the ceiling and back to where it exits out of ……. ……… the Basement here.
The T in the PVC ducting on the Left is one of the intakes for extracting the overall Basement air and then the ducting heads straight up through a WT aluminium pipe in the ceiling of the Basement ……. …… and comes out here behind the Stbd/Right side of the Galley cabinets in this big area under the side decks which form the “ceiling” of this space. You can see that this Basement/Battery Air eXtraction duct joins several other WT aluminium penetrations for things like some of the Fuel Fill & Vent hoses.
The Basement Air eXtraction duct continues off to the Right or Aft on the boat …………. …………. rises up a bit to pick up the air coming out of the eXtaction fan built right into the Bosch Induction cooktop/Hob.
From here the PVC ducting goes out to the Stbd side Wing Box where an extraction fan pulls all the air up through the ducting and out onto the Aft Deck. You will see that in detail when we catch up with what Nihat and Uğur were working on this past week. Back in the Workshop Cihan spent a lot of time this week working on the Fuel system. You will recall his work of art putting together the shiny Silver/Blue/Red fuel manifold last week and now, what looks like a toppled over R2D2 is actually our Alfa Laval fuel centrifuge which Cihan is getting ready to mount.
You’ll need to wait until next week to see how Cihan will use that T shaped bracket he has built do to the mounting. But the most exciting thing for me that Cihan worked at this week was THIS!
Can you guess what system he is working on here? Another easy one for most of you I’m sure; he is now installing the Fuel Filtration system, the design and components of which I’ve described in several previous updates. Short synopsis is that I’ve designed the Fuel Filtration system around multi stage pairs of Fleetguard spin on filters like this.
Each filter has an aluminium “head” that provides the mounting base and fuel routing manifold for each filter. The primary FF5013 filter on the Right here is the “mud filter” that does the brunt of the initial filtration. Its head is then joined to the head of the FS19596 Secondary filter with a SS 3/4” nipple……. ……. like this.
Fuel initially enters this pair through one of the threaded fittings marked “IN” on the Right side here, flows through that first FF5013 Primary filter then the filtered fuel exits through the “OUT” fitting which is directly connected to the IN (arrow) of the FS19596 filter and after passing through this filter exits this Fuel Filtration system on the far Left arrow. The FS19596 filters are also water separators and each one comes with a built in electronic WIF or Water In Fuel alarm. An electrical cable plugs into the Black fitting you see here on the bottom of the filter element and if any water collects at the bottom it turns the alarm on.
The White fitting is a drain so you can quickly drain off any water that has collected there or pull of a quick sample to check the cleanliness of the fuel. We decided that the best location for the three pairs of fuel filters was on this end of the Day Tank so Cihan is not tacking on the mounts for each aluminium filter head. He tacks on a few more L brackets where the fuel hose trays will go. Like this, and then tacks the third pair down below. Hose routes were checked for clearance and optimal location and then he finish welded all the brackets to the Day Tank.
Just how we like our systems; Simple, Safe, Efficient.
More to come next week as Cihan finishes up the installation.
Mr. Gee our Gardner 6LXB Main Engine
Before we move on to the progress of the cabinetry and woodworking teams, a quick update on the bit of work I was able to get done on Mr. Gee this week that can be summed up in two words: sand blasting and painting.
The engine coolant or water manifolds were the last component that I had not fully disassembled previously so they finally got some attention. As with many Gardner components this is all made from very thick cast aluminium which has held up very well in its 50 years of non stop marine service so far. The vertical piece here will normally be bolted horizontally atop one of the two cast iron cylinder heads and bring coolant (water & antifreeze) in/out of the cylinder heads to keep them at their just right temperature. This is the housing for the two thermostats in the system which regulate the flow of the coolant through the engine, keeping the fuel from flowing for the first while so the engine warms up and then opening up like a valve to allow more coolant to flow through the engine and the heat exchanger which has the same function as a radiator in your car or truck to eXtract the heat out of the coolant so it can go back and take more heat out of the engine and make sure Mr. Gee keeps his cool and is always operating at optimal temperatures not matter what the outer conditions are. Larger Primary thermostat in my hand regulates most of the flow and the functioning of the coolant bypass and the smaller Secondary thermostat kicks in in hotter temperatures. Both thermostats now out and dismantled and the housing is ready for its date with my parts cleaner before heading down to the sand blaster to REALLY clean up its act. Here is a “before” shot inside the sandblaster as I get ready to clean up the Coolant Header tank on the Left and the two Valve Covers on the right. And here is an “after” shot of those coolant manifolds you saw me dismantling above, the fuel lift pump in the rear Left.
The bronze & brass oil change pump in the lower middle is a very fun addition on Mr. Gee which is a hand pump for removing the engine oil, all 30 liters of it! It is an original Gardner accessory and I’m delighted to have one thanks to the efforts of Michael at Gardner Marine Diesel. As you can see with these other water manifold parts that you saw me dismantling above, the sand blaster does an incredible job of not only thoroughly cleaning these parts back to their original state and the fine grit I’m using leaves a finish that actually shines.
For many of these aluminium parts I will just leave them with this sand blasted sheen on them and for others I will coat them with clear epoxy if they are a bit porous and would be more difficult to keep clean and not absorb oils.
All the steel and cast iron parts require a good protective paint so these guys all lined up for me to spray them with silicone based paint that can withstand the heat. Oil filter housing in the foreground with an oil pressure distribution block behind it and then miscellaneous bits and bobs, dipstick tube and exhaust manifold clamps behind.
MASTER CABIN:
Moving up to the front and into the Master Cabin we find that the Headboard on the King bed is now all in place as are the removable ceiling panels.
Hilmi has been here as well as evidenced by the Black AirCon/Hot Air controller and White In-Floor heating controller mounted in the upper Left. Red/Black wires are for the two reading lamps. Over on the far Port/Left side of the bed Christine’s “floating” shelf is all in place and Hilmi has the upper switches wired as well as the lower two outlets for 120 and 220 AC power. Straight up from there we see that the first of the removable ceiling panels have not all been upholstered in their White leather and have been snapped in place. Lights have all been pre wired so will only take minutes to snap those in place as well.
Similar progress with the ceiling panels up in the forward area of the Master Cabin outside the Shower and Head and overtop the Vanity sink at the far end. And a bit more progress inside the Head/Bathroom with the upper cabinets over top of the sink and counter now attached and ready to be sealed in place.
The large outer corner of the shower will have two etched glass plates installed in about a month and can hardly wait to see and show you those.
SUPERSALON:
Checking in with Omur and Selim as they continue to apply their cabinetmaking craftsmanship to the SuperSalon.
They continued this week fitting each of the Window Mullions, which are the U shaped vertical marine plywood “boxes” which cover the large aluminium I beam frames which transfer the loads of the whole superstructure of the Pilot House through to the hull frames below. Here is one of the Window Mullions at the Stbd end of the Galley Garages. All the corners will be well radiused and then covered with White leather for the Aft area and Black for the ones around the Main Helm area. The Mullions are all removeable in order to provide future access for servicing those that have cables running through them or to perhaps add wiring and such in the future. So each Mullion is custom fit to provide just the right clearance all around. In addition to the Window Mullions requiring careful fitting you can see similar details such as this outside corner of the Fridge cabinet where it makes this transition over to the Window glass. Here is the more overall view of the SuperSalon with me sitting on the Entryway stairs down from the Aft Deck looking forward to the Main Helm. Gives you, and me, a better sense of how this room will feel when finished and how awemazing the views are going to be out these 360 degree windows. The two AL pillars in the Aft corners of the SuperSalon are particularly massive so their Mullions are the largest but will still blend in and look great when finished.
It is often said, quite correctly, that boat design and building is all a process of endless compromises and trade offs. These window pillars and their mullions are a good example of this where we have to find the just right trade offs between making the pillars eXtremely strong and multiple times more than they are required to be and yet also not become visually massive, distracting and reducing the glass area and views too much. Having our priorities and fundamental principles clearly stated and referred to makes this process much easier. Our SECLoM mantra of Safe, Efficient, Comfortable and Low Maintenance is what we have “chanted” throughout the designing and building of XPM78-01 Möbius and it continues to serve us well.
Here is a look Aft down the Port/Left side of the SuperSalon towards the far corner where the Entryway stairs turn 180 degrees to the stairs down to the Corridor into the Guest Cabin and Workshop. Gives another perspective on how the Mullions will look.
Looking up you can see how Omur is mounting the Black overhead Soffits that make the transition from the Windows to the Ceiling. As you can see most of the marine plywood has been cut out to reduce this high up weight and they will soon have their Ceiling Panels snapped in place using the same FastMount system we are using throughout the boat.
Turning to look at the opposite Aft corner across the Galley for another view of the window pillars. Mullions are removed here so the Black you are seeing on the pillars is the EPDM insulating foam that covers and fills all the cavity spaces in the aluminium I Beams. Remember that PVC ducting that Cihan was installing for the Basement and Cooktop eXtraction Air? And remember that bit about compromises? Well, we had to give up a bit of space in the Aft corner Garage to create this little boxed corner where that 100mm/4” PVC eXtraction Air pipe runs Aft to connect up to the eXtraction fan in the Aft Port Wing Box. Of course we will likely turn this “bug” into a feature by building something around it for storing special items. Maybe a good spot for storing wooden and silicone utensils we use on the induction cooktop that is right beside this Garage?
Compromises can often be turned into a good thing too you know! Lastly for this past week, Omur and Selim have been working on the wood liners for the overhead Hatches in the Master Cabin and SuperSalon. You may recall seeing them build the laminated inner cores for these Hatch Liners several months ago so now they are moving onto adding the solid Ro$wood upper and lower edges followed by the inner lining of Rosewood veneer. Omur has finished the solid edging on these two Hatch Liners so they are ready for fitting and he’s bringing them back aboard from his Cabinetry shop next door. I’ll show you more of these being installed next week.
GUEST CABIN & CORRIDOR:
CORRIDOR STAIRS
Moving down the stairs into the Corridor that takes you to the Guest Cabin on the Right here, the Ship’s Office aka Wayne’s Office on the Left or the WT door into the Workshop directly behind you here.
This is about where Omer and Muhammed left off and picked up again on Monday of this week. Rosewood stair risers (vertical faces) are now all installed, the FastMounted removable bottom two stair treads are in as is the Red/Black wiring for the indirect LED light strips that run under the nosing on each stair tread.
You can also see the infamous Blue Horizon/Handhold Line BHL partially installed on the wall on the Right and just visible at the top of the stairs is the Zig-Zag Rosewood edging for the upper Entryway stairs. This set the stage for Omer to start fitting the solid Rosewood Nosing on the edge of each stair. You can see by the cuts that this is a Nosing on of those two bottom stairs that have to be removable to provide access to the space underneath these stairs where there are some plumbing hoses that might need to be serviced in the future. Next step up the Nosing is solid all the way across. These Nosings will end up being about 5mm/ 3/16” higher than the finished vinyl flooring which I’m attempting to show you here and should have placed a 5mm thick bit of plywood to help show this.
We find this size of lip to be the Goldilocks just right amount that lets your feet feel the edge but not too much and yet still provide enough of an edge to prevent any slipping.
Peeking up under one stair nose to show the groove each nose creates for the LED lights to be recessed into and the wires to power them. We have LED indirect lighting throughout the entire interior living spaces and these are all dimmable so we can adjust them to suit conditions.
Christine and I find this kind of indirect lighting to be a HUGE safety factor on a boat, especially when we are on night passages, as they provide eXcellent visibility down at your foot level without putting much light up at eye level and thus affecting our night vision very little.
Standing up at the top of these Corridor stairs to take this Birds-eye view that shows how the angled stair treads work. You can also see how we have just the right amount of space between the AL pipe railing on the Left and the Fridge cabinet on the Right to make it very safe when transiting Up/Down these stairs, especially when we are underway in heavier seas. You will be seeing much more of these Entryway stairs in the coming weeks as Omer starts to finish these stairs to match the ones below. However you can already see how that Zig Zag Rosewood trim will finish off these stairs just right. Zig Zag is back from the Finishing Shop and ready to be attached. Which is what Omer is up to here. And now installed as Omer clamps the Zig Zag in place.
I often talk about how I think we should all “Put yourself in the way of Beauty” and this is a good example of what I mean as to my very pleased eyes, this Zig Zag beauty is like a sculpture that I get to experience every time I go up or down these stairs. The Rosewood Nosing pieces are now back from the Finishing Shop as well so they can now be installed and you are starting to see how the intersection on the Right where the Stair tread, Nosing, Zig Zag and Blue Horizon/Handhold Line all come together. All the finished Nosing all clamped down now AND the first half of the BHL Blue Horizon/Handhold Line is now going in on the wall on the Right which is VERY eXciting for me to see. Back to that busy intersection at the top to see how the two halves of the BHL come together. Next week I’ll be able to show you this part of the BHL with the end cap in place to really finish this feature off.
The plywood panel in the background will have a Green/Gray leather covered wall panel snapped in place next week as well which will really finish off this stairwell nicely.
GUEST CABIN:
Speaking of finishing things off nicely, stepping into the Guest Cabin we find a lot of that going on. Three of the White leather covered removable ceiling panels are now snapped in place above Christine’s Desk with this Bookshelf above it.
And the slotted vent for eXtracting the air out of this cabin is also now snapped in place above the bookcase.
We saw how the Rosewood Hatch Liner was installed in last week’s post and you can now see how nicely the ceiling panel highlights the Rosewood edges which protrude down just right below the ceiling panel. Ceiling panels back from the Upholstery Shop and Omer has all the Black male FastMount fittings glued and threaded into the plywood backing so they are all ready to be snapped into their respective homes in the ceiling grid. A good combination of things going on here to show you how the Ceiling Panels snap in place into those White FastMount female sockets. In the background you can see where the overhead LED light will soon be connected up to those Red/Black wires and the hole off to the Left is where an air diffuser will be inserted to provide control over the fresh air coming into the Guest Cabin. I thought this worms-eye view would help bring everything going on up at ceiling level into better focus.
Cabinet for the Pullman Berth to folds up into at the bottom of this photo and Christine’s Bookshelf on the far Right. Two big Cubbies that add even more storage area in the Guest Cabin. There will be two hinged lift up doors to cover each of these Cubbies to support for the upholstered couch seat back. The back panels of each Cubby is also removable to give me easy access to the water manifolds and other systems that are running along the hull behind here. Up above the slide out Couch/Bed Omur is putting the finishing touches on the cabinet for the Pullman Berth. The removable back panel is now in place and the two cool little mini shelves have been attached. These little mini shelves were the combined idea of Yesim, Omer and Hakan and what they call “Wayne’s Surprise” as these were not in the original designs and were a bonus feature that they put in without me knowing. Very handy for those sleeping in the Pullman to put their watch, alarm clock, phone, book, etc..
This example might also help you understand that I am not being hyperbolic when I say that Team Möbius is AWEMAZING!
The fold up Pullman mattress “door” is back from the Upholstery Shop and Omer has now installed it into the two beefy SS pin hinges on either side which the Machine Shop fabricated. eXtremely solid platform for the memory foam mattress that is also very easy to lift up into the stowed position. And latches firmly into place with a click of these two SS latches that are the same as the ones we will use throughout the boat for solid locking latches on all cabinet doors and drawers. Stepping all the way back into the doorway into this Guest Cabin to get this shot of this whole corner area. Christine’s Desk on the far Right, printer cubby between it and the Pullman which does double duty by being the support for the Pullman when it folds down.
The other outer corner of the Berth will have a Dyneema line that runs up to a SS hook inside the Pullman cabinet to help support the other end of the Berth. In the interim, Omer made up that little round stool like support. Panning over a bit to the Right to show the Desk and Bookshelf area a bit better.
The athwartships running wall behind the Desk & Bookshelf is eXtremely well insulated as the Workshop and Engine Room are on the other side with extra thicknesses of both thermal EPDM insulation and 4 layer acoustic insulation.
Well, you can now understand my “Shorter & Shorter; Better and Better” title for this week’s XPM78-01 Möbius Progress Update posting. It may have been a shortened four day work week but Team Möbius manages to make better and better progress with each passing week. With Monday and Tuesday being part of our four day weekend for the Festival of Eid al-Fitr here in Turkey, next week will be down to just three working days so more challenges for Team Möbius but I’m sure they will have made even more progress in that 3 day work week than this past 4 day one and I can’t wait to show you that in next week’s XPM78-01 Möbius Progress Update.
This is a long weekend for my fellow Canadians with today May 24th being Victoria Day in celebration of Queen Victoria’s birthday and then May 25th is Memorial Day for all our American friends and family so there will be lots of us enjoying, I hope, these celebrations in spite of the challenges of these Corona days. Christine and I may be on full lockdown until Wednesday morning but we’ll be enjoying each other and lots of good food as well as these incredibly beautiful summer days here in Antalya this long weekend.
Thank you SO much for joining us and a special thanks to those who made to the end here without too much fast forwarding. I know I go on and on and dive into WAY too much detail I’m sure but I do hope that most of you can find the parts that are interesting and skip over the others.
Whatever you are up to this weekend and however long your weekend might be, please do stay safe, happy, healthy and sane and I look forward to bringing you the next progress update. And please be encouraged to add your contributions to this adventure by putting your questions, comments and suggestions in the “Join the Discussion” box below.
-Wayne
15 Comments
John T Poparad II on May 24, 2020 at 1:48 pm
I am reminded of the conservation between the Emperor and Mozart. Mozart, did you have to use so many notes? Emperor I only used as many notes as was needed!
Does Goldilocks have to have so many bits and pieces? Only as many as needed!
Hey John. Hope you are emerging from this latest “storm” healthy and happy and that things continue to improve on your end as well.
We do our best to emulate the Mozart’s wise comment to the Emperor and I do literally count the numbers of bits and pieces in every device and system and use that as one of the metrics for making our decisions. No question in my mind that lower “bit count” is usually directly correlated to lower maintenance and higher longevity and all part of the KISS factor. It was for example one of the big factors in deciding to go with the Gardner 6LXB as its number of moving parts and bits is incredibly smaller than a modern day diesel. With no turbo, mechanical fuel injection, no electrics or electronics, etc. it really does condense this down to the very essence of what is required for a diesel engine to run. The only way I know of to go much lower is to go with 2 stroke diesels such as the old Jimmies or Detroit Diesels I used to work on eons ago, and you then get rid of all valves, camshafts, timing chains, etc. However 2 stroke diesels have their own set of “issues” and characteristics which took them out of the running for me and we continue to be more delighted ever day with our decision to go Gardner.
However, as you point out and given that XPM78-01 Möbius is literally a floating self contained “village” there are as you put it “Still LOTS of bits and pieces.”!!
Re: Mullions… There is a trend towards eliminating vertical breaks in the windshields of vessels. More recent versions of our Nordic Tug have been designed with a single sheet of glass, eliminating the vertical mullions; but, I don’t particularly like that idea. It might look more high tech or seamless but when underway heading into a low angle sun, it’s quite wonderful to be able hide your eyes behind the nearest ‘post’. So, I would think that your design, with the vertical mullions in pilothouse, would represent a good Goldilocks solution.
Hi Evan. Humbled and delighted that you are following our adventure here on Mobius.World and thanks so much for your well reasoned comment.
For our use case and with the requirement to be a self righting boat, our window sizes were dictated by the CE and ABYC and MCA requirements for window strengths. We upped the glass construction and thickness to get the window sizes you are now seeing and while we went many times over the required minimums we were able to work with Dennis our designer to achieve a very wide open feel in the SuperSalon and maintain a full 360 degree view. So as you’ve seen we did our best to reduce the width of the window mullions as low as we could get and as we now stand back and look out we are quite pleased with the end result.
My recommendations to the designer and builders for the next XPM they build is to move the plywood of the mullions so that their inner edge lines up with the actual cutout in the aluminium window frames. With our build, the thickness of the 15 & 20mm plywood is all inside the cutouts of the AL frame plate so we have given up 30-40mm of actual “viewable glass” size. Not something that I think most people would notice but IMHO more viewable glass size and light coming in is always a good thing IF it can be done within the engineering limits of the required glass strength. Making this change would be relatively trivial with a slight modification of the dimensions of the mullions and window sills so an easy modification to make in future versions and one that would add that wee bit more viewable glass area. Still though, in my very biased opinion the viewable glass area we’ve ended up with on XPM78-01 Möbius is very much living up to my choice of calling this our SuperSalon.
And we too like the way we can transform those wider window mullions from a “bug to a feature” by using them just like you suggest as convenient ways to block out the sun or bright lights by simply moving our head.
So like you, we think this is all adding up to also deserving of us having called this Project Goldilocks from the very beginning.
Thanks for taking the time to add your comments and for following along. Please do continue to do both as they are much appreciated and valued.
Now your battery bank splitting starts to look good! I think now that you have the ability to easily split the bank into two, which is very nice ability to have!
Next I think you need to device a way to charge the “floating” half with MPPT chargers – or inverter driven AC chargers – , if I understand correctly now the floating half is disconnected altogether? This way would be easy as switching few switches to do the weekly top up of the battery to 100% SOC and have happy batteries with long life!
BTW, have you considered toothed timing belts for the alternators? I can highly recommend Gates Carbon GT belts, we use them at work all the time, very efficient and reliable. They have a calculator where you can put your parameters and it gives you savings in kWh and percentage compared to V-belts, might be surprising to see, the savings are usually quite significant. Payback time usually is way less than lifetime of one set of belts, plus they run much cooler as well.
– toothed timing belt as drive system – permanent magnet, wind generator -type, variable voltage alternator – ideal diode ie. active mosfet -rectifier – MPPT type DC-DC -charge controller
Would result in overall charging efficiency to shift from estimated around 50-60% for conventional alternator setup to roughly 95-98%. This would result in almost no heat while charging, as almost no energy is converted/lost to heat.
The upgrade can be done one step/piece at the time, and in parallel to existing alternators. These ase used for small scale wind/hydro -setups all the time, so its not complex and it is very reliable technology.
Re the use of toothed timing belts, I did give them serious consideration but in the end going with 8V Serpentine belts seemed like a better choice when I factored in all our criteria and situation. For example buying or even machining the various pulleys needed was much easier with the multi-V than with the toothed or cogged pulley types. Serpentine belts have become SO common in automotive and trucking engines the past 20 years or so has created a plethora of choices and low prices for all the pulleys, tensioners and belts for this system compared to the toothed timing belt style. I would agree with you that there is a huge improvement to be had here over the traditional single V type belts of the past, but I don’t believe there is any appreciable difference in efficiency or wear between Serpentine and Timing belt styles.
As for the other changes you have suggested for the alternator setups we are going with on Möbius, my numbers are much different than yours in terms of the overall differential between the setup you describe above and our setup with the Electrodyne powerheads/alternators, remote rectifiers and remote WakeSpeed 500 regulators. You know this stuff MUCH better than I do but I think your suggestion of 95-98% overall efficiency is unrealistically high and that your estimate of 50-60% efficiency on our setup is unrealistically low. However, our decision is made and all the components are here and being installed so as with all the other systems we will now have to wait to see what the real numbers are when we head out to sea and will quickly learn how well or not our system designs are working.
Hello, I agree my estimate might be on the high side, maybe 90%+ would be more realistic, 95-98% is only achieved in larger scale systems really. But the difference is indeed huge, when you count the whole “losses-chain” from the engine PTO to the battery the 50-60% efficiency is not that far off really for conventional excited field non-PM “car type” AC-alternator. It is all manifested as heat, which is almost totally absent from permanent magnet type generator – almost. The rectifier alone as an example – as your cooling fins and fans point out – has relatively large diode forward voltage losses, which simply cannot be easily avoided, and which are 99% absent when using active rectifier. Just as an example.
Anyways, that was not even my main point, my main point was that you can improve this in the future step by step and by small steps, and not really replace anything if you do not want to, but just give a though. Maybe test a small 500W ish PM-alternator in parallel, charge the starting battery or something to try things out. As an experiment, if nothing more.
A road to efficiency is by many small improvements!
ps. for the belts, Gates has excellent free calculation tool. I have found to trust their estimates vs V or multi-V belts (they do manufacture them as well), and they are sometimes surprising.
From Gates case study, example on saving multi-V vs toothed belt:
“V-BELT TO SYNCHRONOUS BELT CONVERSION YIELDS DRAMATIC COST SAVINGS IN PLANT’S HVAC SYSTEM OPERATION Reichhold, Inc. is a global supplier to the composites and coatings industries, with 18 manufacturing facilities in 11 countries. The maintenance technician at the Durham, North Carolina facility approached a representative of Gates Corporation to survey the plant for potential energy savings. During the hot summer months, the plant spent approximately $80k per month in energy costs to operate its equipment. The Gates representative analyzed 21 HVAC units with 30 hp motors, 44 fume hood exhaust fans with 5-10 hp motors and four cooling tower fan drives with 50 hp motors – all V-belt driven – using the belt drive selection tool Design Flex® Pro™. HVAC UNIT ANALYSIS AND CONVERSION The HVAC drive units were equipped with 4-strand V-belts, which required periodic retensioning and replacement every three months. The V-belt drive was replaced with a 14mm Gates Poly Chain® GT® Carbon™ belt drive, and performance was tracked. Annual KWh usage fell into a range between 10,103 and 10,557 KWh per year, representing a yearly energy cost savings of $505 to $527 per unit. Converting all 21 units represents an energy cost savings of 21 x $505 = $10,608. In addition, the synchronous belt drive will run for years without retensioning or replacement, saving additional downtime and maintenance expense.”
Hi Andy. Sorry to take so long to get back to you, I’m really pressed for time these days but wanted to get at least a brief response to yours. In short I think we are actually in agreement for the most part and there is a bit of apples to oranges in this comparison study. As best I can tell from the text you provided the old HVAC drives in this study were using poorly designed and inadequate V belts (periodic retensioning and replacment every three months??!) so not a surprise that changing to “Poly Chain GT Carbon” belts made a very big difference.
You and I are in agreement I think that traditional V belts, single or multiples, are now very “old school” and offer poor efficiency of power transfer and put considerable axial loads on their drive pulley systems. However what you and I were initially discussing was the difference between the two kinds of “flat belt” systems; multi-V which is what we are using and the “cogged” style such as that used on timing belts. Both of these would typically use a “serpentine” type system with spring loaded tensioners to increase belt wrap, reduce whip, reduce axial loads and require little to now In my research there was very little difference between multi-V and cogged drives in terms of efficiency, axial loads, power transfer, etc. I could have gone either way but the multi-V are much more common in the world and so my choices to purchase everything from pulleys to belts to tensioners was much greater and will be easier to find when replacements are needed in the future. So that’s what we are going with to drive our two Electrodyne alternators; 8V multi-V Gates belts in a Serpentine arrangement with spring tensioners. These are the only two items that will be belt driven as we are driving our sea water pump via the Gardner’s PTO that was originally used to drive generator/alternator on the Gardners.
As with all our systems I will be posting updates in the future with the real world data of who these belts and all our systems work once we are back to cruising and using all these systems on a daily basis.
-Wayne
Andy on June 2, 2020 at 5:44 am
Actually my estimate for 50%-60% was not that much off. It is widely stated efficiency for car type, excited field alternators.
A report from Delcoremy dot com, first google hit for “alternator efficiency”:
“With a typical engine efficiency of 40%, a belt efficiency of 98% and an alternator efficiency of 55%, this leads to an overall energy conversion efficiency of only 21%.”
And quite typical efficiency / current curve looks like this:
Hi Andy. I understand your idea of being able to charge the “floating half” of our battery banks with the output of the MPPT controllers but I don’t think it is needed or a good trade off for the added complexity and cost. While I won’t know until after we are out there in the real world using the boat and finding out what the real numbers are, my sizing and calculations are such that I don’t anticipate that we would ever need to do this “floating half” type setup because the regular setup we have will keep our house batteries fully charged pretty much every day. Furthermore, one of the BIG benefits of going with Carbon Foam batteries is that they are eXtremely tolerant of being at less than 100% SOC for very extended times and then still bouncing back to 100%, or in some tests a few percentage points higher, when they are fully charged. For example, in some of the tests that Nigel Calder performed on these FireFly batteries a few years ago where he deliberately and repeatedly tried to “kill” these batteries, he could not do so and noted his great surprise when he also found that when he brought them back from “surely dead” states to fully charged, he measured that they were slightly higher than the 100% he had measured when they were new.
Like you I suspect, I too will believe it when I see it with my own eyes, but I have spoken with Nigel and many others who I have the greatest respect and admiration for in such matters and so I fully expect to join their ranks in being so pleasantly surprised by the performance and especially the robustness of these Carbon Foam batteries. All my typically long winded way of explaining why I don’t currently see us benefiting from the added cost and complexity of a “floating half” type charging solution so we will go with the setup we have for now and see how it performs.
I fully agree this has to be tried out in practise. But I think charging the disconnected “floating half” would not cause that much extra complexity and periodic 100% SOC is what manufacturer recommends. Better see this in practise, just an idea!
Hi Wayne and Christine. So I am a huge fan, not only of your build but also of the work you have put into the blog. Really an excellent resource. I do hope everything goes smoothly while you finish the build and that you will continue writing the blog through the sea trials and the initial shakedown legs.
It’s a little off topic but I was wondering if you could let me know if you anticipate running into any regulatory issues installing a 40-year-old motor in a new build. I would have assumed that by not installing a Tier 2 or Tier 3 engine you might limit your cruising grounds? Do you anticipate any issues with this?
Hi Scott, thanks for following and especially for commenting and thanks for the overly generous compliments. I’m just delighted that you are finding these blog posts to be so useful a source.
I get this question about our choice of going very “old school” with our use of the Gardner 6LXB for our main engine quite often and even more often have asked it of ourselves, so it is both a very good question and an ongoing one. If you wanted to pursue this more you can find longer explanations of my reasoning in previous posts here and comments that you should be able to find using the Search box up above. Although I will pass on that we are trying to improve the way search works within the blog and suggest that you might also find things in the blog using Google or Bing searches from “outside” the blog that often yield better responses than the search within the blog.
I guess the most honest answer to your question about “regulatory issues” relative to the old school Gardner engine in XPM78-01 Möbius is “We don’t know”. So far we have no reason to believe that we will face any restrictions in where we can cruise or any countries which would have a problem with issuing us entry permission. Or perhaps the better answer is “I don’t know right now, ask me again in a year” once we have been in and out of many different countries.
It may well be that we are following a version of the “Don’t ask; Don’t tell” approach in that so far, none of the agencies we are working with for registration and surveys have raised any issues over the engine information we fully provide them and so my current answer to your question “Do you anticipate any issues with this?” is no. We have had several surveys done on the boat for registration and other regulatory purposes by the likes of Bureau Veritas where we have provided them all the details on the main engine onboard and so far none of them have questioned the use of the Gardner.
It may also well be that we are finding ourselves in a bit of a niche that will hopefully avoid any problems with this because of some of our specific characteristics such as: * Möbius is a recreational or “pleasure” craft only, is our full time home and primary residence. No commercial use. * Möbius is a custom built, non-production boat. * The Gardner certified Continuous Marine Power rating (sometimes referred to as M1 rating by manufacturers) is 95kW/127HP so this puts us under the 100kW rating where the Tier and other ratings are required. * XPM78-01 Möbius is under 24 meters LOA and our Official Registered Length is 22.5m so we are below the 24 meter cutoff where the requirements for all aspects of a ship become much more regulated and restrictive.
On a more pragmatic basis, Christine and I have checked In/Out of countries on our previous boats hundreds of times and never once had any official visit our engine room. Some of the Entry permit forms do ask about the main engine and that in the Tender, but these are usually asked for in HP/kW more than make and model or year and we have had some very old engines in our previous boats which never raised any issues or questions.
So it may be that we are just “knocking on wood” and keeping our fingers crossed, but we have research this topic for many years now and discussed it with LOTS of other boat owners, many with Gardner or other “old school” engines in their boats and have not found there to be any problems and so we have gone forward with our decision for all the reasons above. Hope that answers your question and if not please ask more.
Oh, and maybe wish us luck cross your fingers too!?? 🙂
I am reminded of the conservation between the Emperor and Mozart. Mozart, did you have to use so many notes? Emperor I only used as many notes as was needed!
Does Goldilocks have to have so many bits and pieces? Only as many as needed!
Still LOTS of bits and pieces
Hey John. Hope you are emerging from this latest “storm” healthy and happy and that things continue to improve on your end as well.
We do our best to emulate the Mozart’s wise comment to the Emperor and I do literally count the numbers of bits and pieces in every device and system and use that as one of the metrics for making our decisions. No question in my mind that lower “bit count” is usually directly correlated to lower maintenance and higher longevity and all part of the KISS factor. It was for example one of the big factors in deciding to go with the Gardner 6LXB as its number of moving parts and bits is incredibly smaller than a modern day diesel. With no turbo, mechanical fuel injection, no electrics or electronics, etc. it really does condense this down to the very essence of what is required for a diesel engine to run. The only way I know of to go much lower is to go with 2 stroke diesels such as the old Jimmies or Detroit Diesels I used to work on eons ago, and you then get rid of all valves, camshafts, timing chains, etc. However 2 stroke diesels have their own set of “issues” and characteristics which took them out of the running for me and we continue to be more delighted ever day with our decision to go Gardner.
However, as you point out and given that XPM78-01 Möbius is literally a floating self contained “village” there are as you put it “Still LOTS of bits and pieces.”!!
-Wayne
Re: Mullions…
There is a trend towards eliminating vertical breaks in the windshields of vessels. More recent versions of our Nordic Tug have been designed with a single sheet of glass, eliminating the vertical mullions; but, I don’t particularly like that idea. It might look more high tech or seamless but when underway heading into a low angle sun, it’s quite wonderful to be able hide your eyes behind the nearest ‘post’. So, I would think that your design, with the vertical mullions in pilothouse, would represent a good Goldilocks solution.
Very impressive progress all round!
– evan
Hi Evan. Humbled and delighted that you are following our adventure here on Mobius.World and thanks so much for your well reasoned comment.
For our use case and with the requirement to be a self righting boat, our window sizes were dictated by the CE and ABYC and MCA requirements for window strengths. We upped the glass construction and thickness to get the window sizes you are now seeing and while we went many times over the required minimums we were able to work with Dennis our designer to achieve a very wide open feel in the SuperSalon and maintain a full 360 degree view. So as you’ve seen we did our best to reduce the width of the window mullions as low as we could get and as we now stand back and look out we are quite pleased with the end result.
My recommendations to the designer and builders for the next XPM they build is to move the plywood of the mullions so that their inner edge lines up with the actual cutout in the aluminium window frames. With our build, the thickness of the 15 & 20mm plywood is all inside the cutouts of the AL frame plate so we have given up 30-40mm of actual “viewable glass” size. Not something that I think most people would notice but IMHO more viewable glass size and light coming in is always a good thing IF it can be done within the engineering limits of the required glass strength. Making this change would be relatively trivial with a slight modification of the dimensions of the mullions and window sills so an easy modification to make in future versions and one that would add that wee bit more viewable glass area. Still though, in my very biased opinion the viewable glass area we’ve ended up with on XPM78-01 Möbius is very much living up to my choice of calling this our SuperSalon.
And we too like the way we can transform those wider window mullions from a “bug to a feature” by using them just like you suggest as convenient ways to block out the sun or bright lights by simply moving our head.
So like you, we think this is all adding up to also deserving of us having called this Project Goldilocks from the very beginning.
Thanks for taking the time to add your comments and for following along. Please do continue to do both as they are much appreciated and valued.
-Wayne
Now your battery bank splitting starts to look good! I think now that you have the ability to easily split the bank into two, which is very nice ability to have!
Next I think you need to device a way to charge the “floating” half with MPPT chargers – or inverter driven AC chargers – , if I understand correctly now the floating half is disconnected altogether? This way would be easy as switching few switches to do the weekly top up of the battery to 100% SOC and have happy batteries with long life!
BTW, have you considered toothed timing belts for the alternators? I can highly recommend Gates Carbon GT belts, we use them at work all the time, very efficient and reliable. They have a calculator where you can put your parameters and it gives you savings in kWh and percentage compared to V-belts, might be surprising to see, the savings are usually quite significant. Payback time usually is way less than lifetime of one set of belts, plus they run much cooler as well.
In fact, using:
– toothed timing belt as drive system
– permanent magnet, wind generator -type, variable voltage alternator
– ideal diode ie. active mosfet -rectifier
– MPPT type DC-DC -charge controller
Would result in overall charging efficiency to shift from estimated around 50-60% for conventional alternator setup to roughly 95-98%. This would result in almost no heat while charging, as almost no energy is converted/lost to heat.
The upgrade can be done one step/piece at the time, and in parallel to existing alternators. These ase used for small scale wind/hydro -setups all the time, so its not complex and it is very reliable technology.
Re the use of toothed timing belts, I did give them serious consideration but in the end going with 8V Serpentine belts seemed like a better choice when I factored in all our criteria and situation. For example buying or even machining the various pulleys needed was much easier with the multi-V than with the toothed or cogged pulley types. Serpentine belts have become SO common in automotive and trucking engines the past 20 years or so has created a plethora of choices and low prices for all the pulleys, tensioners and belts for this system compared to the toothed timing belt style. I would agree with you that there is a huge improvement to be had here over the traditional single V type belts of the past, but I don’t believe there is any appreciable difference in efficiency or wear between Serpentine and Timing belt styles.
As for the other changes you have suggested for the alternator setups we are going with on Möbius, my numbers are much different than yours in terms of the overall differential between the setup you describe above and our setup with the Electrodyne powerheads/alternators, remote rectifiers and remote WakeSpeed 500 regulators. You know this stuff MUCH better than I do but I think your suggestion of 95-98% overall efficiency is unrealistically high and that your estimate of 50-60% efficiency on our setup is unrealistically low. However, our decision is made and all the components are here and being installed so as with all the other systems we will now have to wait to see what the real numbers are when we head out to sea and will quickly learn how well or not our system designs are working.
-Wayne
Hello, I agree my estimate might be on the high side, maybe 90%+ would be more realistic, 95-98% is only achieved in larger scale systems really. But the difference is indeed huge, when you count the whole “losses-chain” from the engine PTO to the battery the 50-60% efficiency is not that far off really for conventional excited field non-PM “car type” AC-alternator. It is all manifested as heat, which is almost totally absent from permanent magnet type generator – almost. The rectifier alone as an example – as your cooling fins and fans point out – has relatively large diode forward voltage losses, which simply cannot be easily avoided, and which are 99% absent when using active rectifier. Just as an example.
Anyways, that was not even my main point, my main point was that you can improve this in the future step by step and by small steps, and not really replace anything if you do not want to, but just give a though. Maybe test a small 500W ish PM-alternator in parallel, charge the starting battery or something to try things out. As an experiment, if nothing more.
A road to efficiency is by many small improvements!
ps. for the belts, Gates has excellent free calculation tool. I have found to trust their estimates vs V or multi-V belts (they do manufacture them as well), and they are sometimes surprising.
From Gates case study, example on saving multi-V vs toothed belt:
“V-BELT TO SYNCHRONOUS BELT CONVERSION YIELDS DRAMATIC COST
SAVINGS IN PLANT’S HVAC SYSTEM OPERATION
Reichhold, Inc. is a global supplier to the composites and coatings industries, with 18 manufacturing
facilities in 11 countries. The maintenance technician at the Durham, North Carolina facility approached a
representative of Gates Corporation to survey the plant for potential energy savings. During the hot summer
months, the plant spent approximately $80k per month in energy costs to operate its equipment.
The Gates representative analyzed 21 HVAC units with 30 hp motors, 44 fume hood exhaust fans with 5-10
hp motors and four cooling tower fan drives with 50 hp motors – all V-belt driven – using the belt drive
selection tool Design Flex® Pro™.
HVAC UNIT ANALYSIS AND CONVERSION
The HVAC drive units were equipped with 4-strand V-belts, which required periodic retensioning and
replacement every three months. The V-belt drive was replaced with a 14mm Gates Poly Chain® GT®
Carbon™ belt drive, and performance was tracked.
Annual KWh usage fell into a range between 10,103 and 10,557 KWh per year, representing a yearly
energy cost savings of $505 to $527 per unit. Converting all 21 units represents an energy cost savings
of 21 x $505 = $10,608. In addition, the synchronous belt drive will run for years without retensioning or
replacement, saving additional downtime and maintenance expense.”
Hi Andy. Sorry to take so long to get back to you, I’m really pressed for time these days but wanted to get at least a brief response to yours. In short I think we are actually in agreement for the most part and there is a bit of apples to oranges in this comparison study. As best I can tell from the text you provided the old HVAC drives in this study were using poorly designed and inadequate V belts (periodic retensioning and replacment every three months??!) so not a surprise that changing to “Poly Chain GT Carbon” belts made a very big difference.
You and I are in agreement I think that traditional V belts, single or multiples, are now very “old school” and offer poor efficiency of power transfer and put considerable axial loads on their drive pulley systems. However what you and I were initially discussing was the difference between the two kinds of “flat belt” systems; multi-V which is what we are using and the “cogged” style such as that used on timing belts. Both of these would typically use a “serpentine” type system with spring loaded tensioners to increase belt wrap, reduce whip, reduce axial loads and require little to now In my research there was very little difference between multi-V and cogged drives in terms of efficiency, axial loads, power transfer, etc. I could have gone either way but the multi-V are much more common in the world and so my choices to purchase everything from pulleys to belts to tensioners was much greater and will be easier to find when replacements are needed in the future. So that’s what we are going with to drive our two Electrodyne alternators; 8V multi-V Gates belts in a Serpentine arrangement with spring tensioners. These are the only two items that will be belt driven as we are driving our sea water pump via the Gardner’s PTO that was originally used to drive generator/alternator on the Gardners.
As with all our systems I will be posting updates in the future with the real world data of who these belts and all our systems work once we are back to cruising and using all these systems on a daily basis.
-Wayne
Actually my estimate for 50%-60% was not that much off. It is widely stated efficiency for car type, excited field alternators.
A report from Delcoremy dot com, first google hit for “alternator efficiency”:
“With a typical engine efficiency of 40%, a belt efficiency of 98% and an alternator efficiency of 55%, this leads to an overall energy conversion efficiency of only 21%.”
And quite typical efficiency / current curve looks like this:
https://i.stack.imgur.com/DcNZB.png
Unfortunately Electrodyne does not publish their efficiency figure, but that could be measured with a tachometer, multimeter and a torque gauge.
Then for the permanent magnet alternators, Alxion 800 STK does 94%. Datasheets are on Alxion dot com.
My estimate was a little exacerbated for sure, but still within the ballpark.
Hi Andy. I understand your idea of being able to charge the “floating half” of our battery banks with the output of the MPPT controllers but I don’t think it is needed or a good trade off for the added complexity and cost. While I won’t know until after we are out there in the real world using the boat and finding out what the real numbers are, my sizing and calculations are such that I don’t anticipate that we would ever need to do this “floating half” type setup because the regular setup we have will keep our house batteries fully charged pretty much every day. Furthermore, one of the BIG benefits of going with Carbon Foam batteries is that they are eXtremely tolerant of being at less than 100% SOC for very extended times and then still bouncing back to 100%, or in some tests a few percentage points higher, when they are fully charged. For example, in some of the tests that Nigel Calder performed on these FireFly batteries a few years ago where he deliberately and repeatedly tried to “kill” these batteries, he could not do so and noted his great surprise when he also found that when he brought them back from “surely dead” states to fully charged, he measured that they were slightly higher than the 100% he had measured when they were new.
Like you I suspect, I too will believe it when I see it with my own eyes, but I have spoken with Nigel and many others who I have the greatest respect and admiration for in such matters and so I fully expect to join their ranks in being so pleasantly surprised by the performance and especially the robustness of these Carbon Foam batteries. All my typically long winded way of explaining why I don’t currently see us benefiting from the added cost and complexity of a “floating half” type charging solution so we will go with the setup we have for now and see how it performs.
-Wayne
I fully agree this has to be tried out in practise. But I think charging the disconnected “floating half” would not cause that much extra complexity and periodic 100% SOC is what manufacturer recommends. Better see this in practise, just an idea!
Hi Wayne and Christine. So I am a huge fan, not only of your build but also of the work you have put into the blog. Really an excellent resource. I do hope everything goes smoothly while you finish the build and that you will continue writing the blog through the sea trials and the initial shakedown legs.
It’s a little off topic but I was wondering if you could let me know if you anticipate running into any regulatory issues installing a 40-year-old motor in a new build. I would have assumed that by not installing a Tier 2 or Tier 3 engine you might limit your cruising grounds? Do you anticipate any issues with this?
Cheers, thanks and keep up the great work.
Hi Scott, thanks for following and especially for commenting and thanks for the overly generous compliments. I’m just delighted that you are finding these blog posts to be so useful a source.
I get this question about our choice of going very “old school” with our use of the Gardner 6LXB for our main engine quite often and even more often have asked it of ourselves, so it is both a very good question and an ongoing one. If you wanted to pursue this more you can find longer explanations of my reasoning in previous posts here and comments that you should be able to find using the Search box up above. Although I will pass on that we are trying to improve the way search works within the blog and suggest that you might also find things in the blog using Google or Bing searches from “outside” the blog that often yield better responses than the search within the blog.
I guess the most honest answer to your question about “regulatory issues” relative to the old school Gardner engine in XPM78-01 Möbius is “We don’t know”. So far we have no reason to believe that we will face any restrictions in where we can cruise or any countries which would have a problem with issuing us entry permission. Or perhaps the better answer is “I don’t know right now, ask me again in a year” once we have been in and out of many different countries.
It may well be that we are following a version of the “Don’t ask; Don’t tell” approach in that so far, none of the agencies we are working with for registration and surveys have raised any issues over the engine information we fully provide them and so my current answer to your question “Do you anticipate any issues with this?” is no. We have had several surveys done on the boat for registration and other regulatory purposes by the likes of Bureau Veritas where we have provided them all the details on the main engine onboard and so far none of them have questioned the use of the Gardner.
It may also well be that we are finding ourselves in a bit of a niche that will hopefully avoid any problems with this because of some of our specific characteristics such as:
* Möbius is a recreational or “pleasure” craft only, is our full time home and primary residence. No commercial use.
* Möbius is a custom built, non-production boat.
* The Gardner certified Continuous Marine Power rating (sometimes referred to as M1 rating by manufacturers) is 95kW/127HP so this puts us under the 100kW rating where the Tier and other ratings are required.
* XPM78-01 Möbius is under 24 meters LOA and our Official Registered Length is 22.5m so we are below the 24 meter cutoff where the requirements for all aspects of a ship become much more regulated and restrictive.
On a more pragmatic basis, Christine and I have checked In/Out of countries on our previous boats hundreds of times and never once had any official visit our engine room. Some of the Entry permit forms do ask about the main engine and that in the Tender, but these are usually asked for in HP/kW more than make and model or year and we have had some very old engines in our previous boats which never raised any issues or questions.
So it may be that we are just “knocking on wood” and keeping our fingers crossed, but we have research this topic for many years now and discussed it with LOTS of other boat owners, many with Gardner or other “old school” engines in their boats and have not found there to be any problems and so we have gone forward with our decision for all the reasons above. Hope that answers your question and if not please ask more.
Oh, and maybe wish us luck cross your fingers too!?? 🙂
-Wayne